Agenda and minutes

Apologies for absence were received from Councillors Mary-Jean Devon, Lorna Douglas, George Freeman and Sandy Taylor.

There were no declarations of interest.

Report by Head of Governance and Law

The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and introductions were made.  He then outlined the procedure that would be followed and invited Police Scotland to speak in support of the Chief Constable’s complaint.

POLICE SCOTLAND

PC Simpson referred to a request from the Chief Constable that, in terms of Paragraph 11(1) of Schedule 1 of the Act, the Licensing Committee suspend Mr MacIntyre’s Licence.  She advised that the Chief Constable complained, in terms of Paragraph 11(2)(a) of Schedule 1 of the Act that Mr MacIntyre was no longer a fit and proper person to hold the licence.  She confirmed that the Chief Constable was also asking the Committee to order the immediate suspension of Mr MacIntyre’s licence, in terms of Paragraph 12(1) of Schedule 1 of the Act, on the grounds that the carrying out of the activity to which his licence relates was likely to cause a serious threat to public order or public safety.  In support of the Chief Constable’s request PC Simpson read out the details of an incident which occurred on 16 November 2018.  She confirmed that as a result of this incident Mr MacIntyre was reported to the Procurator Fiscal.  She advised that as this matter was sub-judice, she was constrained with regard to the nature of any further information she could provide at this time.

QUESTIONS FROM LICENCE HOLDER

Mrs McManus referred to Mr MacIntyre attending the police station after the alleged incident.  She asked PC Simpson to confirm if it was correct that no concerns were made at that time about Mr MacIntyre continuing to work as a taxi driver.  PC Simpson advised that she could not confirm.

LICENCE HOLDER

Mrs McManus spoke on behalf of Mr MacIntyre.  She advised that he took this matter very seriously but asked that she address everyone on his behalf.  She confirmed that Mr MacIntyre has held a taxi driver’s licence for around 35 years and that other than this matter coming to light there have been no other indications that he was not a fit and proper person.  She advised that he lived with his mum and siblings.  She said that his mum had dementia and that his income from his taxi was one of two income streams for the household.  She advised that he has been driving taxis for over 35 years with no issues.  She also advised that he had done charitable work for several years which required him to have enhanced disclosure checks.  She referred to the incident alleged to have taken place in November.  She said that Mr MacIntyre was interviewed by the Police on 29 November 2018 and heard nothing further until 7 February 2019 when he was in the Police station and given an undertaking to attend Court on 21 February 2019.  She advised that the Procurator Fiscal (PF) did not make a decision at that time and the matter was continued until tomorrow (21 March 2019).  She advised that at this stage the matter was still before the PF to make a decision on whether Mr MacIntyre was going to be charged.  She advised that the complaint had come from one person and this was denied by Mr MacIntyre.  She confirmed that if faced with a charge Mr MacIntyre would plead not guilty.  She asked the Committee to give Mr MacIntyre the benefit of innocent until proven guilty and as the matter was sub-judice at this time, asked the Committee to continue this matter in the meantime.  She said that she appreciated this matter was of some concern but asked the Committee to continue until the situation was known at Court.

MEMBERS’ QUESTIONS

Councillor McCuish asked Mrs McManus, if Mr MacIntyre really did depend on the licence for income, what sort of income did he make from his two Operator’s Licences. Mrs McManus advised that this was quite a small business which Mr MacIntyre operated in partnership with his brother.  She advised that his brother generally did the hospital contracts and Mr MacIntyre would bring in around £200 to £300 through his own car in a good week.

Councillor Trail advised that he was not familiar with criminal law or court procedures and asked what was intended to happen at Court tomorrow.  Mrs McManus advised that a report from the Police was submitted to the PF and it was for the PF to decide whether or not there was a case against Mr MacIntyre.  She said that if the PF determined that there was a case to be raised then they may be in a position to serve him with court papers tomorrow.  She said that if Mr MacIntyre pled not guilty this would result in further procedures.  She advised that Mr MacIntyre may turn up at Court tomorrow and find that a decision has still not been made by the PF.

Councillor Trail sought and received confirmation from Mrs McManus that if the PF does not make a decision tomorrow then they may extend the undertaking for perhaps another month.  She advised that Mr MacIntyre had no control of that and that Mr MacIntyre would only have input if papers were served.

Councillor Kinniburgh asked if this was the same understanding as Police Scotland.  PC Simpson advised that she was told it was a pleading diet tomorrow.  Mr Reppke commented that both PC Simpson and Mrs McManus could be right.  He said that Mr MacIntyre could turn up tomorrow and be served and dealt with but if complaint was not available tomorrow then Mr MacIntyre may get a further undertaking.

Councillor Currie sought and received confirmation from Mr Reppke that there were a number of ways that this matter could be dealt with.

Councillor Moffat advised she believed that as a rule in Great Britain everyone was presumed innocent until proven guilty and based on that she was finding it difficult that the Committee were being asked to take away something before a decision was made.  She sought and received confirmation from PC Simpson that a decision had  ...  view the full minutes text for item 3.