Agenda and minutes

Apologies for absence were received from Councillors Audrey Forrest, Amanda Hampsey, Daniel Hampsey, Willie Hume, Mark Irvine and Paul Kennedy.

There were no declarations of interest.

Report by Head of Legal and Regulatory Support

The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting.  In line with recent legislation for Civic Government Hearings, the parties (and any representatives) were given the options for participating in the meeting today.  The options available were by video call, by audio call or by written submission.  For this hearing the Applicant requested that he be permitted to attend the meeting from the Council Chamber.  This was agreed to and he was joined by Officers to facilitate his attendance to address the Committee by video call.

 

Police Scotland opted to proceed by way of audio call and Sergeant David Holmes joined the meeting by telephone.

 

The Chair referred to a preliminary matter and advised that Police Scotland had requested the Committee take account of number of a number of matters which were considered “spent” in terms of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.  It was noted that the Committee may take into consideration evidence relating to “spent” matters where they are satisfied that justice could not be done except by admitting such evidence.

 

The Chair outlined the procedure that would be followed in this respect and invited Police Scotland to address the relevancy of the “spent” matters.

 

POLICE SCOTLAND

 

Sergeant Holmes advised that the Applicant had a number of matters which were considered “spent” in terms of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 and that it was the Chief Constable’s contention that justice could not be done in this case except by admitting evidence relating to these “spent matters”.

 

The Chair then invited the Applicant to ask Police Scotland questions and to address the relevancy of the “spent” matters to his application.

 

APPLICANT

 

Mr Judson said that he did not believe the “spent” convictions had anything do with his application and that he did not think they were relevant.  He intimated that he would not have a problem with discussing them if it was decided that they should be disclosed.

 

Mr Judson then read out a statement explaining the circumstances of his medical condition Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in order to give the Committee some insight into the difficulties that he now has and how it affects his life on a daily basis.  He also advised of his qualifications, volunteering work, and other licences held which were relevant to his application.  He advised that his medical condition was managed by medication and the support of family and friends.  He referred to the Police objection and he explained the background to this.  He said that his mother had called the Police in the hope that they could have helped calm him down but they came and took him away.  He commented that the Chief Constable’s assertion that he was not a fit and proper person had left him feeling worthless and a lost cause.  He said that he has never behaved inappropriately towards any member of the public or work colleague and advised that he was ashamed of his past.  He said he was not a bad person and that he just got overwhelmed at times.

 

The Chair invited Police Scotland to comment on the Applicant’s submission and Sergeant Holmes confirmed that he had nothing further to add.

 

The Chair then invited Members to ask questions and determine the relevancy of the “spent” convictions.

 

MEMBERS’ QUESTIONS AND DEBATE

 

Councillor Wallace sought and received confirmation from Mr Judson that the first “spent” conviction was dated 1988 and the last was dated 2013.

 

Councillor McCabe sought and received confirmation from Mr Judson that there were 10 “spent” convictions.

 

Councillor Howard asked Mr Judson if any of the “spent” convictions directly related to his business.  Mr Judson advised that most of them had happened when he was young and before he was diagnosed.  He said that he had never been in trouble working for other people or himself.

 

Councillor Hardie advised that as there were 10 “spent” convictions he thought it was essential that the Committee hear about them.

 

Councillor Green agreed that it would be helpful to hear the detail of these.

 

The Committee agreed that justice could not be done without admitting the “spent” convictions into the process due to the number of them spanning a number of years.  A letter dated 6 February 2023 from the Chief Constable outlining the detail of the “spent” convictions was circulated.

 

After a brief adjournment the Chair outlined the hearing procedure that would be followed and invited the Applicant to speak in support of his application.

 

APPLICANT

 

Mr Judson referred to the detail of each “spent” conviction in turn.  He said there was no excuse for them.  He explained that he was young and foolish and, without being diagnosed with ADHD at that time, he was easily led and influenced.  He said that he had grown up in a little village which was an ex mining community.  He advised that once the collieries closed down this led to a lot of unemployment in the community and in the majority of these cases the children suffered for it.  He said that it has taken a lot of time for him to look into his past and understand his behaviours.  He referred to travelling to school by bus and being bullied by 7 children from the same family.  He had to travel on this bus with these children for 10 years and in order to try and stop the bullying he took the easy route and tried to fit in with them.  He advised that his parents were good parents.  He said that his father drank every night of the week except Christmas.  He advised that the first thing he looked forward to when he turned 18 was to stand at a bar and drink a pint.  He said he started to be institutionalised and did not seem able to fit in with the good kids that were from the area he lived.  He said he got in with the wrong crowd.  He commented that his mum had been a nurse and when she worked nights he would  ...  view the full minutes text for item 3.